Monsters in Greek and Norse Myth

I keep trying to work my way around to writing about the overarching themes of Greek and Norse mythology.  Really, I had a whole outlined planned that discussed the ways in which each culture viewed war and love and mortality.  I have, sadly, become painfully sidetracked and now I cannot stop thinking about the types and roles of various monsters and monstrous creatures that speckle both mythological landscapes.

At first glance I would have said that Norse mythology makes little use of the monster idea and instead spends a great deal of time focusing on the existence of different worlds/realms and species.  Norse mythology certainly has a different number of creatures–giants, wolves, Grendel, snakes, shape shifters, etc–but they never really seem to cross from the concept of different into abnormal and worthy of fear.  Then I remembered Nidhogg the monstrous snake that is either eating away at the supports of the world or sucking on corpses.  The giant world ending snake certainly counts as a monster.  Still, though, that was only one example I could think of in all of the Norse stories I’ve ever read.  Everyone else always seems to be clearly identified as someone’s son or daughter or brother or has clearly expressed emotional and logical motivations for their behavior–be they good or evil.  There is something about humanizing a villain that keeps them from becoming monstrous.

The Greeks, by comparison, are chock full of monsters.  Typhon, manticores, Cerberus, Lamia, harpies, giant spiders, the list of abnormal creature monster mixes is a long one.  Then there are the really scary versions.  There are the humans that have been morphed into frightening monstrosities for some slight or another.  Athena turned Arachne the woman into a part spider part human hybrid who then started churning out all of the spiders of the world, which….ugh…so…I hate spiders.  That is genuinely the worst thing I could think of.  Scylla is the unfortunate woman who got turned into a tentacle creature.  There are more examples, but I am grossing myself out so lets move on.  Greek mythology doesn’t ignore the idea of other species with human traits.  The gorgons, the centaurs, and even the sirens all have family ties and understandable motivations.

Which leaves me wondering why monsters are so prevalent in the Greek myths, especially compared to the Norse myths.  We could certainly chalk it up to a failure of translation.  These two histories come to us from vastly different sources.  Perhaps there are a number of other, smaller, stories in the original oral traditions of the Norse that included monstrous abominations and they simply weren’t deemed worthy of keeping.  Personally, I don’t think that is very likely.  Historians are generally excited enough about new and exciting elements of other worlds and cultures that they make some attempt to preserve them.

Perhaps the ratio of monsters to humanized species is more a reflection of each cultures respective tolerance for things that were different or foreign.  We could, I am sure, form a number of arguments as to the why behind the myths.

Creation

I find the similarities in the creation myths to be very interesting considering that each culture was so different. Regardless of the time and space that separated the cultures, there were still some similarities that make it seem like their historians and storytellers were getting together an collaborating on their myths.

One of the aspects of creation myth that is so fascinating is the idea of chaos transitioning to order, beginning almost out of a void of nothingness. In Greek mythology Gaia (Mother Earth) springs forth out of nothingness and begins to not only create life, but also to organize it. This of course is similar to the Hebrew interpretations of a supreme deity (ex Nihilo creation) suddenly and miraculously creating life, and assigning it into categories and sub categories. Norse mythology, I think is the most interesting creation myth of them all. It is so complex in terms of what ultimately caused the creation of life and elements and earth. It’s probably the most chaotic of all the creation myths as far as how many characters were involved, and yet every chaotic character played a role in organizing and taming the chaos they themselves were causing.

Of course there are more similarities and distinctions in these cultures and their myths than we can talk about, but my biggest question is why did many of these myths not stand the tests of time? It seems like nearly every descendent culture of Greek, Hebrew, and Norse mythology have settled into either an adaptation of the Hebrew creation myths or they are strictly focused on the science of creation. Why have most of these cultures seemingly abandoned their creations myths? Or have they? Maybe I’m wrong.

This American Life: Origin Stories

This American Life: Origin Stories

Some of you might listen to the PRI radio show “This American Life.”  Last year, one of the episodes centered around the theme of origins.  The first segment of the episode, which you can hear through the above link, talks about how companies construct origins myths as a way of defining their image to their customers.

“The Big Bang Is Hard Science. It Is Also a Creation Story” by Barry B. Powerll

This article is not required, but it does fit well with our current discussion.

While it is based on empirical measurement and quantitative reasoning, it is also a creation story, and therefore shares some of the traits of the stories that have come before. For one thing, it resonates with the ethos of the modern age—this is the era of big explosions, like those in White Sands and over Nagasaki. Also, like all creation stories, it explains in comprehensible language something which otherwise requires unobtainable categories of thought. After all, we cannot really know what the world was like before its creation. But we do see how things around us change, grow, are born, and die. And, like the ancients, we fashion these observations into the story of our creation.

From Tim Kreider’s Comic “The Pain”: Science vs. Norse Mythology. http://thepaincomics.com/weekly041229a.htm

Creation

After reading the Hebrew creation myth I recognized how the world was made from chaos and found organization. I also read this in Greek mythology “The World Begins”. I also interpreted chaos as creation allowing for organization to take place in the creation myth of Norse mythology. I found that these countries are many miles apart but hold a very distinct and common connection. I read Lemmings interpretation “Creation Myths of the World” and the module four lecture. The idea or theory that chaos brought forth creation which created organization made sense to me.

In all mythologies we have read there was nothingness and it created something or someone to be with. In the Greek myths “…Chaos was emptiness and Gaia the Earth sprang to life without parents.” In the Hebrew creation myth a god comes forward and creates a world from nothing. In the Norse it is a little different but very similar. There is a North region of ice and a South region of fire with Black Surt waiting for Ragnarok. The heat from the south warms the ice from the north and the middle country a frost giant is made. In all of these myths there is nothing (chaos) and a being comes from nowhere and some form of procreation allows for the generation of the world.

What I did notice in all of these creation myths is that plant life seemed to arrive first and then the Titans, nymphs and other beings come. I wonder why that is?

Creation and Destruction

Once upon a time, in a la—well, first and foremost land must be created…

Greek myth comes out of chaos- an abyss of nothingness, a void that contains the material necessary for the creation of a place, Earth, and an attraction, Eros.

Norse mythology is a bit more difficult to define, but I perceive it to be a world parent myth, in which creation evolves from a parent, in this case, the flesh of Ymir.

The Hebrew story of Genesis begins out of nothing, creation ex nihilo. The world and all its possessions are brought into being by The Creator.

Many of the “American Indian myths” are emergence myths, in which humanity emerges from another world to form a new world, often when the old world is no longer of use.

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Every so often, civilization makes a fool of themselves and the slate must be wiped clean; often times, this is where flood myths come into play.

In Greek mythology there are 3 great floods: Ogyges, Deukalion, and Dardanus. Perhaps the most famous of these three is Deucalion, in which Zeus makes the decision to rid the world of the generation of mankind that produced Lyakaon. Prometheus warns his son, Deukalion of the eminent flood. Together Deukalion and his wife, Pyrrha survive the flood in wooden chest. They create a new mankind from the rocks of the earth, the “bones” of the “parent.” (Martin, 2003. pg. 40-41)

While, Norse mythology doesn’t have a water specific flood story, it does tell the story of Ragnarok which is the end of the current cycle of the gods and mankind. “The earth will sink into the sea. The earth will rise again out of the water, fair and green…There will be life and new life, life everywhere on earth. That was the end; and this is the beginning.” (Crossley-holland, 1980. pg. 175-176) Although, water is eventually involved it is the battle that depicts the outcome of this ending.

The story of Noah’s Ark is the great flood myth in Genesis. In this story the creator himself, God, decided that Noah and his family along with 2 of each species will be the sole survivors of a great flood that will allow for the repopulation of a world created a new, although not entirely.

In the Caddo legend of “The Voice, the Flood, and the Turtle” a family gives birth to 4 evil sons and to destroy the monster there is a great flood. Similar to the recreation of the world in Genesis, the man and woman hide alongside pairs of animals in order to reinhabit a newly cleansed world.

Notice that no civilization is entirely wiped out in flood myths, every story has a surviving man and woman and animals so that creation doesn’t have to begin over completely.

Crossley-holland, Kevin. The Norse Myths. New York: Pantheon Books. 1980. Print.

Martin, Richard P. Myths of the Ancient Greeks. New York: New American Library, 2003. Print.

Red Dot or Feather?

1. Religion<Relationship: The Native American tribes don’t recognize needing to have a relationship with their god(s).
2. The “Fall” of Adam (and Eve): The Creation story of Adam and Eve started ex nihilo and from a Supreme and Sovereign Deity that created mankind then cursed them due to their sin, thus having them Fall from Grace and needing a Savior.
3. Creation Story being fact: Most Christian theologians agree that the Genesis Creation story is fact and not mythological. While at the same time, Native Americans don’t  have this problem. “The tribes confront and interact with a particular land and it’s lifeforms. The task or role of the tribal religions is to relate to the people to each and every facet of creation as they have experienced it.” (Vine Deloria)

Native American Creation Myth:

1. Rabbit Boy or Blood-clot Boy is an interesting creation story that dealt mostly with a boy being made from blood that a rabbit kicked around and then once formed into said boy the rabbit and his wife raised the boy as their own. I think this one is helped translated with the idea that they don’t necessarily need to compare it to Christianity, they just relate it to the people and how they experienced creation on their own terms.
2. The Creation of First Man and First Woman is also interesting in the fact that when the 4 god-like bodies tried to communicate with “the people” this makes me believe that they were just trying to make a re-do of the 1st people and that first man and first woman were not actually the first. This could also support not only that there was some sort of fall of Native Americans but also that this has a translation to us that won’t make sense and that it relates to the people in which it was intended for in regards to their land, religion and belief structure.
3. How Men and Women Got Together is a fascinating story of the depiction and differences between man and woman. I like how Old Man and The Chief Woman had dialogue and that he was trying to impress her. This myth has differences in the fact that we see how most Native Americans see the relationship they have with their deities. Not necessarily a desirable one, but more of a provider and that’s it.
4. When Grizzlies Walked Upright could be a story that shows the difference between how Native American men and women see the fall of man to have happened. instead of falling from grace, they were cursed to the ground.
5. Creation of Animal People is a story where Native Americans believe that before the settlement of Columbus in 1492, Native Americans were much more in tuned with their animistic nature. This could very well be a translation of how humans and animals came into existence as apart from how it is told in Genesis.

Thanks for Reading!!

Cycles of Entropy

In Greek, Norse, and Hebrew myth, we can see examples of both ex nihilo creation and creation from Chaos. In Hebrew myth, God has and will always exist. God created both the world and life from himself with no outside substance. In both Norse and Greek myth, the world was created by material already in existence when ‘the creator’ came into being. Norse myth begins with two distinct lands with a chasm between them forming the first creators. Here in Norse myth we also see an example of the World Parent myth when the body of that first sentient being is formed into the worlds. The Greek cosmos arose from a different preexisting material; Chaos.

While different in many aspects, I believe that Greek, Norse, and Hebrew myth all share an overarching theme. In all three, there is not simply movement from disorder to order, but also a broader cycle of entropy and order. In all three myths we see this trend not just once, but over and over again. Greek myth shows Chaos generating order with its offspring. Later we, again, see a move from disorder to order when Zeus sends a flood to punish man who has become unruly. Another example of this tendency toward orde,r in Greek myth, can be seen in the Persephone story. The natural order of things has once more gone awry and the gods must work restore that natural order. In Norse myth, the same cycles can be seen. First with the creation of the world from the body of Ymir and with Heimdall’s creation of social classes bringing order to human society. In Hebrew myth we see a similar cycle to that of Greek myth with the creation of the world and subsequent punishment via flood. Perhaps ancient civilizations realized this as a natural scientific phenomenon that we see play out allegorically. Alternatively, as humans we sometimes (or most of the time) have the tendency to see preexisting cultures and cultural ideas as bad or less evolved(read more chaotic.) Therefore, the cycle of entropy and order that we see my be new myths enveloping the old ones.

Creation

In both the Greek and Hebrew creation stories, there happens a god from the darkness or void and great floods.  The Greek stories talk about a being called Chaos creating Gaia, Earth, from the dark void of Chaos.  The Hebrew version of creation is similar with God coming from the dark void and creating earth.

In the Hebrew creation or ex nihilo, God speaks and things happen.  God said let there be light and light started.  God commanded all things to happen including night, stars, plant life, creatures great and small and even man and woman.  I’m not sure where the names come from but they have stuck all these years and we still call these the same names. The Hebrew bible states that God worked on creation for 6 days and the 7 day he rested.  The Hebrew stories tell of two great trees in this garden where the man and woman lived.

In the Greek creation stories, Chaos, who some believe was a god, created Gaia or Earth from nothing.  He then created the night and the day.  The Greek myths also talk about Tartarus being the dark depths of night far from earth.  The Greeks named the things they created but the names are strange to the common English language.   After Chaos created the night and day he told Gaia to start her creations.  Unlike the Hebrew stories where God commanded things to come, Gaia gave birth to these things like Love, blue sky, mountains and seas.

In both writings about the floods there were humans acting crazy. There were fights, wars, many bad crimes committed.  In the Greek stories, Zeus looks down from the mountain, sees all the fighting and decides to flood the earth.   He chooses one honorable man and woman to live.  The same thing happens in the Hebrew stories.  God sees violence and corruption.  God chooses a man that is faithful to him and allows him to take his wife and children with him to be safe while God floods the earth to kill all the evil in the world.   The trusted man in both stories have many children and repopulate the earth.